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بِسمِ
اللهِ
الرَّحْمَنِ
الرَّحِيمِ Allah, in the name of, the Most
Affectionate, the Eternally Merciful |
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Religion
& Ethics
Dedicated
to ethics, religious tolerance, peace and love for humanity |
اخلاقیات
اور مذہب
اعلی
اخلاقی رویوں،
مذہبی
رواداری،
امن اور
انسانیت کی
محبت سے
وابستہ |
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اردو
اور عربی تحریروں کو بہتر
دیکھنے کے
لئے نسخ اور
نستعلیق
فانٹ یہاں سے
ڈاؤن لوڈ کیجیے
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A Dialogue with
Atheism |
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One of my close friends, Mr.
Muhammad Ali Zaidi has studied the arguments of
present-day Atheists and got impressed with them. He presented their
arguments in form of a dialogue in a personal chat. The discussion is
presented here with his permission to compare the arguments of both groups
i.e. those who believe in God and the ones who do not. Mubashir: Assalam
o alaikum Ali: Wa Aliakum Asalam, how are you? Mubashir: Al Hamdulillah,
how are you? What about the health of mother? How the things going on? We
started a positive dialogue but discontinued it. I want to discuss it in
detail with you. What are your views about religion? Please feel free to
discuss with me your views because I'm not a conservative person. Ali: Same here, may I ask a question?? Mubashir: Off course, you can ask 10
questions Ali: Why did you ask me that? Did all
the perception was narrated after my comments? Mubashir: Actually we have never discussed
it openly so let's discuss it openly. Ali: Is it needed? Mubashir: It's my request, and off course
needed. Ali: Well in short I am of the view
that one should make the religious matters separate from the others, I mean
"duniyavi (worldly)". Mubashir: Explain it. Ali: It should be subjective but not
objective, it can differs man to man Mubashir: What's the basis of this view? Ali: The things of state interests
including laws, constitutions should be on priority, if I say something about
state issue, just look alcohol is prohibited in Islam but we never think that
how much revenue can be generated through it, during sugar formation process
a lot of material of cane have been wasted while we can use it to make liquor
if it would be allowed. Mubashir: No doubt revenue can be generated
from any activity e.g. alcohol, gambling, prostitution etc., the case is that
whether we believe in God or not, if we believe and we are convinced that
Quran is His book, then logically there is no other option except to follow
His instructions whether they are beneficial or not Ali: Well, agreed Mubashir:
Your view is required on my previous argument that: “The case is that
whether we believe in God or not, if we believe and we are convinced that the
Quran is His book, then logically there is no other option except to follow
His instructions whether they are beneficial or not.” Ali: Well to my faith is some thing, u
trust with close eyes, but the other matter should be handled rationally. Mubashir: I agree with this, my faith is not
a blind believe, it is based on logic and definitely I believe in dealing all
matters rationally. Ali: And if we read these life patterns
we see that how these systems emerged gradually, I hold on anthropological
basis, so can you prove His (God’s) existence. As for me it was an on going process, from
magic through metaphysics to this form of religion. Mubashir: Existence of God is very logical,
existence of this universe is the proof of it and nobody can deny existence
of a creation without a creator. Ali: But for me now the stage is of
science based on empiricism. Mubashir: Regarding anthropology, Ali: Dear brother, I read a definition
of matter in (Class) 7th, "Matter can neither be created, nor it can be
destroyed but it can be converted into energy", well evolutionary
process is an on going and there are so many agents contributing in its
acceleration, such as urbanization,
industrialization, inventions, discoveries, and what I understand
anthropology is much more than Darwin. Mubashir: Matter is changing its forms but
who has developed these laws, anthropological changes are going on but again
the question is that who has made the changing factors? Ali: Don't u think, there is any internal
forces, if you ask about the magnet, the south pole has the attraction for
the north, is anybody make those. Mubashir: Even if something internal force
like internal force of a magnet or human being, the question is who has made
this force, do you think that if I drop ink on paper, it will automatically
become a poem of Ghalib? Or if I throw bricks
upward and when they come down, it will become automatically a good house? Ali: Not but its a rule and logical
that it would be a blot but if one is expecting or thinking that it will make
something else its very illogical, I can say, religion is some thing
absolute?? Is it? But logic depends on past experiences,
no. of chances, empirically proved things and 5 senses, there is no 6th. Mubashir: Even if you are not expecting it,
will something intelligently designed can be created automatically just be
internal forces, empirical knowledge comes from 5 senses but everybody
applies a sixth sense which is your inference engine, we get information from
our 5 senses that a very intelligently designed universe and my body is
available so inference is that it has a Creator. Ali: Yes, but the mother as the
chemical process of making some compound its very obvious. Mubashir: A compound will be made when
someone will mix the elements in required ratio. Ali: Ok, so how a child produced?? Mubashir:
A child will be produced when someone will perform a required action
i.e. sex. Ali: Injecting some compound (sperm)
and it hits ovary, then zygote is produced getting food from mother and
become matured under specific and required conditions now just think the
matter of sperm, food, etc reshaped in the form of child and when one dies
the matter changes its condition when it decomposes, and if there is any tree
on that grave, its production level will be higher because of getting some
fertilizer in the form of decomposed matter of human. Mubashir: Definitely, all this process of
changing matter tells that there is someone who is putting all that into
action, each step of this cycle demonstrate that there is someone who in
controlling the process. Ali: And later we use the production of
that tree as we eat and then what do you think about the cloned species. Mubashir: Someone will do some experiments
and then the cloned organism will come into being. Ali: Ok, so man is doing all these?
Formulating the procedures and trying again so he got the prescribed and
formulated mechanism and applied it, so this formulation is universal but
having specific conditions, and any body can use them but again the relative
conditions are essential and nothing behind these formulations, two atoms of
hydrogen and 1 of oxygen always make a molecule of water having relative
conditions of like temperature Mubashir: The human being is copying the formulation
which is already creation by Someone. Ali: Ok, Dear Brother, I think its a very long discussion, and leave it to the next
sitting, and now I am to go back, but I am happy to discuss. Mubashir: Ok, just before closing, let's
tell what opinion you have developed about existence of God till now, I'm
very open to discuss, we are brothers and don't consider me a fanatic person.. Ali: Haha
(sorry for the written expression b coz it made me smiled), give me hard time
and I ll give you the same, I am still standing
there, where I was before discussion. Just let me know " Mubashir: Al Hamdulillah.
Regarding coming to Ali: Regarding marriage, I don't have
any plan, but seeking for a good opportunity. One last thing which I want to tell
you that I’m an honest person in my profession and relationships. I do not
use liquors, I’m not a corrupt person, never committed adultery, avoid
telling a lie as much as possible, the only negative thing is that I do not
pray regularly. Rest you know very well, I go to Mother Tresa
home in off days to spend time with disabled children. I think that these
things give me an internal satisfaction. Take care about yourself because
you’ll have to progress a lot. God bless you dear brother. Mubashir:
I’m very glad to know about your activities. I know very well that you
have a positive spirit in yourself. The person who becomes happy
and get satisfaction with good deeds e.g. helping poor and becomes
dissatisfied with something bad, definitely owns a good mindset. I really
like you for it. You told that some of your
colleagues have earned huge sum of money from your field. I guess that they
have done the same for which NGOs have the bad reputation. You might have the
same opportunities but you have not done the same. It indicates that the
positive spirit is very strong in your personality. You also wrote that the only bad
thing in you is that you do not pray. If you consider it bad, it means that
you believe in God and want to pray for Him. Why I started a discussion with you
on this subject? The reason is the affection developed between us for a long
period of time. I want to convince you on whatever I think the right path and
I think similar view will be at your side. The obvious reason is our
relationship and affection. Even if you are not convinced, it will not have
an impact on our relationship. I’m open to be convinced to truth at any time.
I’m putting a few questions. I’ll
really appreciate if you please think about the answers and also inform me
your response. 1. Atheists usually
present the processes related to creation of human being discovered through
the anthropological research as arguments against the existence of God. As
you mentioned that chemicals in soil are converted into food by plants, then
they become part of human body, then part of sperms & ova, then they
become a live human being, then the human being is died and his body is
destroyed into soil. Do you think that details of this process really negate
the existence of the God? Scientific details of many things have been
discovered and in future, many other details will be discovered. These details
(if discovered at the level of scientific law) are nothing except providing
information on existence of some forces. We see these forces as a part of the
creation plan of God. Is there anything which empirically tells that no God
exists and entire process is automatic and without a Creator? 2. We discussed that
there are internal forces in this universe. It is our common observation that
if internal forces are not organized, they simply create a mess. During Hajj,
I observed that around 2.5 million people were gathered at one place. Each
person had an internal force i.e. his thinking process which was directing
him to do something. Since these forces were not harmonized, it simply
created a great mess. Some people wanted to move towards East and some towards
West which resulted in a disaster as a result of that many people lost their
lives. In the universe, we see that trillions (not millions or billions) of
forces are active. If there is no external organizer, why the universe does
not become a great mess? In absence of an Organizer, how the universe has
become so orderly and organized that scientists declare that it is based on
an intelligent design? On this subject, I’ll recommend you
to read the books of famous Turkish scholar Harun Yahya. He is a specialist on this subject and his books
are available at www.harunyahya.com. 3. How the internal
forces of different organisms came into being? Is there any empirical
evidence on creation of these forces? 4. We find an empirical
evidence of existence of God in the established history. A few persons called
Apostles claimed in a few selected nations that they are appointed by the
God. These Apostles asked their audience to believe in One God otherwise they
will be destroyed. Most of the nations denied these Apostles and these people
were destroyed. These are not stories told by religious literature.
Archeological evidence supports it. Anybody can see the archeological sites
of the nations of Thamud, Madyan
and 5. Holy scriptures i.e. Torah, Gospels and Quran claim that the
children of Prophet Abraham (Alaihis Salam) were made a demonstration of God’s reward and
punishment in this world. Whenever they committed themselves to the right
path, they were rewarded in this world and whenever their religious and
ethical character was deteriorated, they were punished in this world. Don’t
you think that an empirical evidence? You can see the details in my article
at www.mubashirnazir.org/ER/L0015-08-Safarnama.htm. Can you please tell that if no God exists,
how this claim became true? As a brother, I would like to add
that a person who believes in God is at no risk. Whether the God exists in
reality or not, he/she will not face a problem as a result of believing in
God. On the other side, the person who does not believe in God is at great
risk. If the God exists, the person who does not believe will be in a serious
trouble. Do you think that we should take that risk? You are requested to please respond
to these five questions at your earliest. I intend to publish this discussion
on my website. Would you like to publish your views in your name? If you do
not want in this way, I’ll publish them anonymously. Waiting for your response, Your brother Mubashir October 2007 PS: I never received the response
of such questions from any atheist. |
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مصنف
کی دیگر تحریریں قرآنی
عربی
پروگرام / سفرنامہ
ترکی
/ مسلم
دنیا اور ذہنی،
فکری اور نفسیاتی
غلامی
/ اسلام
میں جسمانی و
ذہنی غلامی
کے انسداد کی
تاریخ / تعمیر
شخصیت
پروگرام / قرآن اور
بائبل
کے دیس میں / علوم
الحدیث: ایک
تعارف / کتاب
الرسالہ:
امام شافعی کی
اصول فقہ پر
پہلی کتاب کا
اردو ترجمہ و
تلخیص
/ اسلام
اور دور حاضر
کی تبدیلیاں / ایڈورٹائزنگ
کا اخلاقی
پہلو سے
جائزہ / الحاد جدید
کے مغربی اور
مسلم
معاشروں پر
اثرات / اسلام
اور نسلی و
قومی امتیاز / اپنی
شخصیت اور
کردار کی تعمیر
کیسے کی
جائے؟
/ مایوسی
کا علاج کیوں
کر ممکن ہے؟ / دور جدید
میں دعوت دین
کا طریق کار / اسلام
کا خطرہ: محض ایک
وہم یا حقیقت /
Quranic Concept of Human Life Cycle
/ Empirical
Evidence of God’s Accountability
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